How Church Management Systems Can Serve (Not Replace) Relationships
Two podcast conversations on church systems, generational communication, and why friendship is an ecclesial category
“A system is what’s going to help you get where you need to be from where you currently are.” - ryan coatney
Last week on the podcasts, we discussed different ways to think about the structures that we encounter in ministry, either in whole church practice (Shock Absorber) or specifically children’s ministry (Cross Formed Kidmin). In both conversations, I railed against efficiency as a Christian virtue, arguing that a passion for efficiency says more about our post-industrial world and corporate managerial priorities than the ethics of Jesus’ upside-down Kingdom.
This week is part 2 of both discussions.
As we dig into the weeds of church systems, it is essential to keep our foundation strong. Relationships are the foundation of church life. If we lose this, then we will drift back towards industrial and corporate metaphors. Ministry becomes the assembly line of faith formation, and brothers and sisters in Christ become our products: Disciples™.
How do we effectively lead our church while avoiding these pitfalls? Great question!
I pray that these conversations will help you as you consider these topics in your own ministry context.
Relational and Responsive - The Shock Absorber
Kicking off with a cultural artefact, Joel McMaster engages Stuart Crawshaw and me in a discussion on the recent Met Gala and the brouhaha surrounding Sarah Paulson’s costumed protest against the financial elites. Can a multi-millionaire actress genuinely protest against the super-rich billionaires? Or does the whole thing fail the pub test, when so many are struggling with the difficult economic moment that we are in?
We then continue our conversation about church management, landing the discussion with a few real-world examples, including,
Church management systems
Generational differences in communication preferences
Applying the Shock Absorber principle to new ideas
And the wisdom of testing new ideas by building bridges to new realities (and not burning the bridge behind you).
Grounding all of this is the theological conviction that friendship is an ecclesial category and that being friends with each other, because of Jesus, is more important than getting things done.
Catch the full conversation in the links below or on your favourite podcast app.
Systems Matter - Cross Formed Kidmin
Having discussed ministry structures in our last episode, this week Hunter Williams, Ryan Coatney and I move on to the connected topic of ministry systems.
What’s the difference?
Whereas structures define the roles and responsibilities within your ministry (who does what), systems are the repeatable processes that allow you to achieve a specific outcome (how you do it).
Hunter takes us through his four buckets of children’s ministry—children, volunteers, parents, and curriculum—with each of us able to share sustainable systems from within our own ministry practice.
Along the way, we discuss,
Check in systems
Volunteer recruitment
Equipping teams
Curriculum management, and
Parent engagement.
Ryan closes up with these words of wisdom,
If you find yourself in any manner or in any area of your ministry chasing your tail or constantly repeating the same mistakes or not being able to get out from underneath the load… it’s almost always because you don’t have a system in place…
A system is going to get you unlost and unburied so that you can do the ministry God’s called you to do.
Catch the full conversation in the link below or on your favourite podcast app.
If you’ve got a question or topic about Children’s Ministry that you’d like us to cover on the Cross Formed Kidmin podcasts, send me a DM or leave a comment below.



